Comments

1. Gary (Schuyler, at work in Syracuse):

   

   I’ve been working here in Syracuse for more years now than I want to count. I’ve mentioned also on this board in years past how I don’t believe the Syracuse official snow totals, and I work near the airport where the snow fall is purportedly measured. Usually at any given time, I’ll have more snow on the ground at home in Schuyler than what is on the ground at the workplace. Granted, just north of us, Cicero or Brewerton or Fulton, a diferent story, buth they’re north of where the official readings are said to be taken. Time and time again, I’ve observed when it snows here and I’ll see a 2 inch dusting, the official snowfall will typically be reported to be 6 inches for example for the same event.

   Yes, I’m aware of the official methods of measuring snowfall vs a ground measurement, but I don’t believe that accounts for the discrepancy. One more example, I had to travel to Louisville, Kentucky for business a few years back. The morning I was to fly back to Syracuse, it was reported Syracuse received a 25 inch snowfall the previous night. I saw that on the weather channel before I left Louisville. On the flight back, I was dreading having to get all that snow off of my car when I returned to the airport outside parking lot and perhaps even having to shovel the car out.

   To my surprise, when we landed that same day, I saw grass poking through in many areas. My car was no problem to get out of the parking lot. My estimate was perhaps 6 inches out of what was reported to be 25 inches.

   On another note, this last snowfall didn’t help the ice fishermen much. The temperatures were in the 30s for the most part and that creates slush on top of the lakes. There is still a good foot to foot and a half of solid “black ice” (best ice there is), but the slush and snow on top that fell last week is creating a messy condition on the lakes. A couple good cool nights should firm up the slush even if the daytime temperatures go above freezing.

   I’d like a couple more weeks of good cold weather to finish off the ice fishing season, then bring on Spring!

   Posted March 4th at 7:21 AM

2. Bill Kardas (WKTV):

   

   Gary,

   Syracuse is in a better position along the lake for lake effect snow compared to Utica, and it’s not shocking that they beat most of Central New York in the snow department every year.

   To address some of your concerns, the airport itself is on the northern end of the city, which partly explains the higher totals. The scenario you mentioned about the 25” of snow was a lake effect event. Lake effect snows settle very quickly, and have very little water content. A heavy lake effect event followed by a sunny day will turn 25” of measured snow into as little as 6”. This type of event, though on a smaller scale, happened here in early February. At one point earlier in the month, we had about 10” of snow in about a week, with little than an inch on the ground after that week.

   Syracuse also sees larger swings in temperature during the winter, and does not have to deal with the east wind that keeps the snowpack together for the Mohawk Valley. Even though Syracuse may have more total snow than Utica, there’s a better bet than we hang onto our snow a lot longer than they do thanks to the topography surrounding the Mohawk Valley.

   I understand your concerns, but I do not question the totals from the airport, as the measurements are taken by trained observers.

   Posted March 4th at 7:41 AM

3. Bill Kardas (WKTV):

   

   The overnight lows over the next few days will fall into the teens. That should be enough to keep the ice together for a little while longer.

   Posted March 4th at 7:43 AM

4. Gary (Schuyler, at work in Syracuse):

   

   Bill, admittedly, a lot of “fluff” falls through the sky here, but it doesn’t amouint to anything once it’s on the ground. And, agree, due to the topography and location here, a warm front will barrel on through and warm up this area considerably while at home we’re stuck in the cool air.

   Dealing with a lot of out of town vendors at my workplace, Syracuse has a bad reputation for snow. I generally tell them it’s not as bad as they may think as a lot of the snow is low density, low water content lake effect. 100 inches plus of 10:1 type ratio snow in a year would be significant, but when much of that 100 inches plus is 20:1 or 30:1 ratio snow, the impact is lessened considerably.

   Posted March 4th at 7:50 AM

5. MG(Point Rock):

   

   I have to agree with Gary here. One thuing I look at is the snow-water ratio, and some of Syracuse’s measurements are a little surprising. For instance, earlier this winter, on Dec. 23, they meaured 4.6 inches of snow with just a trace of precipitation. Then on Jan. 3, they measured 14.6 inches of snow with 0.06 inches of precipitation.
   Living where I do, I’m pretty familiar with lake-effect snow, and I’ve measured my share of 20:1 or 30:1 events, but that Jan. 3 snowfall in Syracuse is 243:1 !

   Posted March 4th at 8:25 AM

6. Bill Kardas (WKTV):

   

   Gary, MG,

   I do agree with you about the low water content. Low water content snow is not as slick, and makes a big difference in driving conditions. A few inches of lake effect will have little effect on travel. A few inches of heavy wet snow will make traveling very difficult. I noticed this quickly when I moved out here and watched trucks driving on the highway at 55mph during a lake effect squall. The snows we get in Albany are almost always slippery and difficult to drive through.

   Both of you raise the general question of “is seasonal snowfall enough to measure the roughness of winter?”. The answer that I think we can agree on is no. Syracuse may have had 100” of snow, but their winter wasn’t all that much different from ours. The only difference is that they had more snow during the lake effect events.

   Winter storms are a better indicator of the “roughness of winter”. Winter storms impact a large area, and cause more problems regionwide than lake effect snow. Lake effect snow has its place too, but only the larger events would (in my opinion) count.

   There were years in Albany where we’d have storm after storm, but would always fall short on the list at the end of the season. Winters out there were just as bad at times as in Central New York…the only difference is that we’d get snow all at once. That’s a bigger problem to deal with, especially with a larger population.

   Posted March 4th at 8:51 AM

7. norway:

   

   how long before we hit the 50-60 range??
   How long do you think it will take this snow to melt off?
   just curious

   Posted March 4th at 10:46 AM

8. Bill Kardas (WKTV):

   

   Norway,

   We aren’t going to get that warm until we get rid of the snow. We’ll lose a lot of snow over the next few days with sunshine and highs in the low 40s.

   Posted March 4th at 11:43 AM

9. Rob (Whitesboro):

   

   Snowpack down to 11” as of noon.

   Posted March 4th at 12:00 PM

10. Tony - CNYWeather.com (Westmo):

    

    Not far behind me Rob. down to 8” this morning. Grass will be poking out of spots soon.

    Posted March 4th at 12:34 PM

11. randy Vitullo :

    

    I have a comment about Syracuse’s winning years. Every time I have ever driven to Syracuse during the winter, I am amazed at one startling fact; the lack of snow on the ground anywhere in Syracuse. They must be measuring their snow fall in the far northern extremes of the area, or, in the extreme southern part of their area, because they rarely ever have snow on the ground. You can drive there at anytime during the winter and chances are, you will find very little snow.

    Posted March 4th at 12:58 PM

12. Adam Musyt:

    

    Ever since I moved to this area and experienced lake effect snow firsthand I’ve often felt that we are "cheating" when we tally up our seasonal totals. It’s not that there is anything malicious or incorrect about how the measuring is done – and local meteorologists and weathercasters and NWS employees (and of course, our bloggers) are all doing their jobs of taking accurate measurements well. It’s just that there is an inherent problem with measuring lake effect snow and including it equally with synoptic events in a seasonal tally.

    
    

    It’s pretty clear to me that a foot of dense snow from copious moisture off of the Atlantic (with perhaps 1.0 to 1.5 inches of liquid equivalent) that buried Washington, DC several times this winter is much more substantial than a foot of airy fluff from Lake Ontario that may only be 1/3 of an inch of liquid.  This is especially true if the day after the snow, both DC and Upstate New York are at the same 30 degree temperature, and the DC snow is still 10 1/2" deep, while the CNY lake fluff settles down to 6 inches.  It just sort of cheapens the experience, I think – but that’s just me.

    
    

    Yes, lake effect is fun and interesting to track – and yes it certainly can be and often is hazardous to travelers – but generally speaking a few inches of lake fluff and a few inches of slushy wet snow are nowhere near an apples to apples comparison.  Last Monday’s heavy wet snowfall only accumulated 1 3/4" in Rome – but that was about the heaviest, slushiest 1 3/4" you’re ever going to get – and it surely was more impactful than the dozens of times a year we see similar amounts from lake effect.

    
    

    What might be really interesting would be to "normalize" our snowfall. If we were to take a look at the water equivalent for every time it snowed and assign a 10 to 1 ratio for every snowfall, that might level the playing field a bit. It would certainly make for a good blog entry just as a point of comparison. Unfortunately, ASOS instrumentation is (to be charitable) really really bad at measuring liquid equivalent of snow, and without human observers the flawed measurements may not even make the calculations worthwhile.

    Posted March 4th at 2:32 PM

13. MG(Point Rock):

    

    Adam, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head when it comes to my comment about the snow/water ratios measured at Syracuse — those automated sensors are probably under-measuring the liquid equivalent precipitation, which makes their snow/water ratios look so crazy.

    Posted March 4th at 2:45 PM

14. Rob (Whitesboro):

    

    Isn’t this rare to have such a warm winter in Canada. The long range models keep them well above average for March it seems. I see there are signs of a east coast storm in the 7-10 day. That’s not going to do us any good if there’s no cold air to tap. Up to 37 degrees here and the snow is going fast!

    Posted March 4th at 3:45 PM

15. Jill Reale (Utica):

    

    Another couple interesting notes to go along with the snowfall totals. Baltimore and Philly both still have Utica beat in snowfall totals with BWI reporting 80.4” and Philly with 78.7” of snow this season. Dulles International Airport is close with 73.2” of snow. Another interesting point is that while Dulles and Reagan airports are only 28 miles apart, Dulles has a snowfall total of 73.2” while Reagan has a total of 56.1”.

    Posted March 4th at 3:55 PM

16. Jim (Whitesboro):

    

    I commute through Syracuse to Auburn every day, most days this winter I must say that it was easy traveling through Syracuse with not much snow. However, once I hit the hill at ext 39 it is a different world with heavy squalls and less visibility. What were the stats for Auburn so far this year? I suspect that they have had quite a good run this winter, it just seemed to me that there was always a band set up off the lake in the vicinity of exit 40 (Weedsport) heading south to Auburn.

    Posted March 4th at 8:31 PM

17. Ron in Frankfort Hill:

    

    Still have 18 to 24 inch snowpack,depending on where you measure,but our temps are always 4 to 7 degree’s colder than the valley

    Posted March 4th at 11:04 PM

18. dvd:

    

    Burning the audio and video abstracts to the adapted disc architecture – either CD or BROOKLYN BRIDGE
    . Assembly a BROOKLYN BRIDGE DVD requires converting all video and audio sources into MPEG-2 forma. Converting abounding files to actualize a BROOKLYN BRIDGE DVD COLLECTION
    .

    Posted June 21st at 8:44 PM

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